KindlED | The Prenda Podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments through microschooling. Powered by Prenda, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle curiosity, motivation, and well-being in young learners. Do you have a question, topic, or story you'd like to share with us? Get in touch at podcast@prenda.com.
KindlED | The Prenda Podcast
Episode 89: Microschools are Everywhere. A Conversation with Meredith Olson.
We name the real barrier in education as the status quo mindset and share how Vela backs nearly 5,000 founders building learner-centered options. Meredith traces her journey from engineering and finance to education, explains the data behind microschool growth, and offers practical steps for parents and educators to lead change.
• Defining the enemy as mindset, not institutions
• Meredith’s path from engineering and economics to education
• Three decades of steady growth in low-cost alternatives
• Pre‑COVID skepticism and the COVID demand shock
• Vela’s microgrants, reinvestments and peer network
• The four founder types and their motivations
• Parent and learner agency as a new paradigm
• Pioneers helping refugees become builders
• Wild and wise as a founder operating principle
About our guest
Meredith is president and CEO of VELA, a network of self-determined people doing education their own way. VELA supports 4,800+ founders who enable low-cost private and home education for millions of families. Meredith brings more than two decades of philanthropy and community leadership to this work. She previously served as vice president of public affairs for Koch, Inc., where she led corporate philanthropy and community programs. Meredith is the board chair of yes. every kid., an organization advancing transformative education policy, and is a trustee of Wichita Collegiate School.
Connect with Meredith
VELA
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About the podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments.
Powered by Prenda Microschools, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle young learners' curiosity, motivation, and well-being.
Got a burning question?
We're all ears! If you have a question or topic you'd love our hosts to tackle, please send it to podcast@prenda.com. Let's dive into the conversation together!
Important links:
• Connect with us on social
• Get our free literacy curriculum
Interested in starting a microschool?
Prenda provides all the tools and support you need to start and run an amazing microschool. Create a free Prenda World account to start designing your future microschool today. More info at ➡️ Prenda.com or if you're ready to get going ➡️ Start My Microschool
People ask us frequently, who's your enemy? Like, what are the dragons you're trying to slay? And and we'll say, you know what? Your enemy is not, it's not a person, it's not a system, it's not, we're not like anti-public schools or anti-traditional schools at all. No, our enemy is the status quo mindset. It's the mindset that holds you back and says, you know what, I can't do this, and there's no possibility for change. And so that's the biggest barrier.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome back for another exciting episode of the Kindled Podcast sponsored by Prenda. I'm Kelly Smith. I'll be hosting today, and my guest is Meredith Olsen. Meredith is president and CEO of Vela. It's a network of self-determined people doing education their own way. Vela supports close to 5,000 founders to enable low-cost private and home education for millions of families. She brings more than two decades of philanthropy and community leadership to the work. Before doing Vela, she was uh vice president of public affairs for Koch. She did corporate philanthropy and community programs. She's also the board chair of Yes Every Kid, which is an organization that transforms education policy. So Meredith is all over the place in the Ed Reform space and education innovation really. She is dynamic, she is thoughtful, she is deep and analytical. I think you're really gonna love just hearing her perspective and the story of how Vela came to be and how this movement, which really started out with a small number of grants given to founders, and I'll just say I was one of the lucky people right up right off the bat, Prenda was one of the first three grants that Vela gave to go from that to now really rallying thousands of people. I think you're gonna love Meredith's story. So with that, let's get into it. Meredith Olsen, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the Kindled Podcast.
SPEAKER_02:All right, thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00:And welcome. Well, let's let's dive right into it. I want people to understand you and your story. Can you kind of talk a little bit about well, let's talk about you first. You know, I we'll we'll tell the Vela story here in a minute, but you know, how did you get into this whole world of of changing the way millions of kids are learning?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I I would say that I did not take the straight path here. Like it was a very windy road and unexpected, but it all totally makes sense in the end. So for me personally, Kelly, I'm a I'm an engineer and a finance person by training. And so I spent the early part of my career working in construction. I worked offshore Gulf of Mexico. Now I guess it's Gulf of America, but I was out there on the water building stuff, and and then I moved into more of more roles of responsibility on the business side and managing projects and whatnot. And then one thing led to another, and I ended up working in public affairs and basically applying economic analysis and good, sound business decision making to the public sector space. And you know, one thing leads to another, and I found myself working in education.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, can we pause a little bit on the story? Because you dropped very nonchalantly, as my teenage kids would say, you nonchalantly dropped that you you did your training in both engineering and finance, which sounds to me like a double major. I mean, have you always been the type of person that's just wants to learn everything of this this curiosity?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. So I'll tell you what happened. Okay, so I was strong at math as a student, and I loved math, I loved science, and so I thought, well, when I get out of college, I need to find a way to support myself, so might as well study engineering so I can get a good job. You know, this is what they told you. And particularly at the time, um, you know, I was a female coming up in engineering, and the idea was, hey, there's a ton of ton of good job opportunities out there. So I did that, and I loved my job, I loved solving problems, and I learned a lot about like um, I would say how to solve problems, right? Technically, I learned all the technical details. And then I found myself working for a large corporation. I was down in Texas, and I realized, I came to the realization that business decisions were not necessarily getting made by the engineers, but they were getting made by the business people. And I had never even had the first accounting class. I mean, not even one. So I didn't even understand the language of business. If you asked me what an income statement was or a balance sheet, I would just zone out because I had no idea what you're talking about. And so I thought, well, gosh, if I'm gonna understand how to be effective in this sort of corporate world, I better understand the language of business. So I went to graduate school and um in graduate school I focus on finance and economics.
SPEAKER_00:Got it. And then later you make the shift into government affairs. So here's you again encountering a new kind of a new challenge, a new domain, and attacking it. This time, did you do it through school or did you do it by another method?
SPEAKER_02:So that was um as a result of being in the workplace. And so um I had become pretty adept at managing spreadsheet models. And Kelly, I know you can relate, you've been there, right? I feel like I became my best friend at work every day was Excel. Like I was attached to my desk and attached. Excel was my best friend.
SPEAKER_00:You're talking to me.
SPEAKER_02:All I did was live in the land of spreadsheets. So I did a Yes, exactly. You start dreaming about it, you think about it in the shower. You know where I'm coming from on this. It happens. You dream formulas. So financial modeling was something that really motivated me. And there was an opportunity that came up to essentially apply economic analysis and economic thinking to policy matters. So, how do you consider what's happening at the federal, state, and local level with respect to policy? And then what will be the sort of like quantified impact on business operations? So I moved into a role in government affairs in order to do financial analysis of government policy. And so, again, like what on earth does that have to do with education?
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:So I just happened to be in the right, right place. It doesn't have a lot to do with education, but I guess I was in the right the right place at the right time. So um I was working with an organization uh, you know, sort of collaboratively. Um, it's now known as the Stand Together Community or Stand Together, and they were looking for someone to develop kind of from the ground up an education strategy with respect to K-12. And while I didn't have direct experience in education, I did have a lot of experience doing research, analysis, modeling, and bringing kind of economic thinking to business decisions as well as the social sector. And so I was asked to figure out like how can Stand Together can create uh a vision strategy and set of plans to um have a positive impact on the K-12 space.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you're known now and So that was in 2015.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. So that was years ago, and everybody knows you now as the proponent of microschools and alternate education environments and education entrepreneurship. You've done so much work. I won't I want to get into Vela, but can you sort of bridge that gap? So you're looking for Stand Together on behalf of Stand Together, you're looking at the education world generally. You probably have some perspectives around you, but this isn't your background, it isn't necessarily where you spend all your time. How do you get from there to let's support education entrepreneurs?
SPEAKER_02:Great question. So here I am, it's 2015, 10 years ago. All right, develop a transformative education strategy from scratch. Hmm, interesting. Well, first thing you got to do is to run around and meet people and learn and just get really, really smart on what's happening, gain a reality-based understanding of what's happening on the ground, look at the data, see what the data says. And so as we research the data, something that really struck me at the time was we were observing slow but steady growth of low-cost private and home education alternatives over a period of about three decades. And so you essentially had like 30 years of just, I mean, not significant growth, but just slow and steady growth in this off-the-grid sort of independent education sector, all in the private sector. And what was impressive about the slow and steady growth over time was that it was happening without any meaningful government support or philanthropic support. So basically you had this growing movement that was building steam under its own weight, right? And so didn't have a whole lot of accelerant behind it, except for the courage and motivation of the people who were doing the work, right? Who were just determined to make it happen. And so to me, that was very impressive. And so our idea, we had an idea back in 2017. Well, what if, you know, as philanthropists, there was support provided to this nascent space that had been growing over a long time but without government or philanthropic or philanthropic support? What if we provided some support, but did so in a way that didn't steer steer the movement or change it or substitute its priorities for the priorities of the people who are doing the good work? Um, what would happen? So that was the audacious bet. That was the idea. And this idea, it was just an idea back in 2017. Well, it came to life in 2019 when Vela was established.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Well, that's about when I was lucky enough to cross paths with you guys. And I was fascinated to hear about this this movement. Let's spend a little bit more time on this because I think people hear microschools, they think this is something that was, you know, invented in the last five, seven years, something like that. I mean, apprentice started in 2018, COVID came in 2020. There are things like that, but I think your point is exactly right that this this groundswell of parents and educators just deciding like we can create the future we want to live in, we can build something better and and that fits the needs of our kids and our community. You know, I I think that's a really inspiring and it's an important idea just to give confidence that humans working together can really solve problems and they can do things that are that are pretty impressive. Yeah, tell me, talk to me a little bit more about that crowd and and maybe specifically, you know, I hear you on the educator front, these these people are courageous, they're brave, they're stepping up, they're putting their life on the line, their their livelihood, they're maybe mortgaging their house. I mean, they're doing kind of amazing things to sacrifice to make this happen. But parents too, right? Like these parents pay taxes, large amounts of taxes to the federal government. Listeners will probably know that numbers range from you know$15,000 is about average in the US per kid per year on education. That's tax money that's already been taken from paying, you know, tax-paying citizens, right? So if you're a parent, you've already paid those taxes, and now here you're saying, well, I'm gonna also pay out of pocket. I mean, basically what what that meant. So can you talk a little bit about yeah, what you saw around that movement and what was fueling it from the parent side as well as the the educator?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, these are these are great qu great questions. So as we started to meet people, and I'll tell you what we did to try to get smarter, you know, we wanted to listen to it to, you know, sort of two audiences. If you if you were a researcher or you were in the academic community and you follow these things closely all the time, how did you feel about what was happening in the space? Again, we're talking like 10 years ago. And then what were the educators and families feeling? So two things we did before we made a decision to launch Vela and invest in the space was to bring together relatively large focus groups of both audiences to better understand what was happening, right? And so it was fascinating. So when we brought together the academics and the research community, we brought together education researchers as well as entrepreneurship researchers. And we put them in a room together and we talked about this audacious idea about, you know, low-cost, independent private education and home education. And should this grow? And something striking happened. Largely the education participants, so these are the smartest and most open-minded education researchers, said, Don't go here. This is not legitimate, this is foolish, right? Nothing to see here, this isn't quality education. And then the entrepreneurship and new market entry, like those types of folks in the room were saying, wait a minute, wait a minute, time out. This isn't how any other part of our society works, right? Like, you know, why is there so much closed-mindedness? And you've got the same factors at play, you know, sort of the same as the societal level inflections at play that are affecting other sectors of our economy. Why is education off limit? Right. And so we thought, huh, that's interesting. So then the second set of convenings we held were with the people who are doing this incredible work, the creative, innovative, you know, sort of trailblazers, if you will. And their reaction was, wait a minute, time out. You're from a big education foundation. You're not interested in people like us. Like, what are you doing here? Like, and you know, like kind of crossed arms and closed body language of, well, yeah, like we're a little skeptical because, well, yes, we would, while we would be interested in considering your support, you can't come in and tell us what to do. Like, that's why we're not a part of the traditional system, right? And so it was after those convenings that we thought, okay, and these were just anecdotes, this isn't like big giant data sets, but we thought we're on to something. So let's put a little bit of money at risk here and see what we can find. And so our thought was, and we were able to secure funding from it was joint funding from Stand Together and the Walton Family Foundation. They were in at 5050. Uh, this was back in 2019, and we thought, okay, well, let's do maybe 15, maybe 15 to 20 grants annually for a couple of years and see what happens. So in that first year, 2019, we did three grants, and you'll recognize this because Prendo was one of those three.
SPEAKER_00:One of the three. I mean, I still I look back at those early meetings, and I just can't, honestly, I was having those types of conversations with lots of people, and I just have to say, sitting down with your team and recognizing vision and like an ability to set sacred cows aside and really look hard at what's best for kids and families, it blew me away. I walked away from those meetings just energized and excited, whether or not I got the grant. I was glad that this work existed. So kudos to everybody involved. I mean, that was really an incredible group.
SPEAKER_02:Well, no, it was. And you know what was nice? It was nice to find um, it was nice to find some kindred spirits, right? Because, and you know this, when you're on the education circuit, whether we're talking about, you know, sort of like establishment education conferences or reform-minded education conferences, either way, they thought we were all crazy. Yeah. You know, this is a little bit super coloring outside of the lines. Yeah, yeah. I heard things like this is black market education, this is, you know, I mean, like it's somehow it's in the shadows. And I'm thinking, wait a minute, actually, this work is happening in the light of day in communities everywhere. We just need to bring more awareness to it. So anyway, it was just wild times, and but that was all pre-COVID, right? Right. And so then COVID happens, and and in a way, I mean, Prenda, Vela, like we were all sort of lucky in a way because we had no idea that COVID was wait waiting around the corner, and we would never wish that again on anyone. But what it did was it it really created the conditions where people thought that maybe some things could be different in education, right? Because essentially you went from a small portion of the school age population was unconventionally schooled at the beginning of 2020, and then within a few months, 100% of the kids in America were receiving their education in an unconventional way. So that was a shock to the system, right? And so that year we thought, okay, this idea of doing 15 to 20 grants a year, we need to update our thinking on that. We need to reduce the size of our grants, we need to make support more broadly accessible. And that year in 2020, I wrote 452 grants. So we have three in in 2019 and then 452 in 2020. As of today, I look, the numbers are always changing. This morning, um, I looked at our current founder count, and in our network, we have 4,811 founders.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:So we have almost 5,000 founders in the Vela Founder Network, you know, since we got started in 2019. So we're we're six years on, and this is so exciting.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:We couldn't be happier. I mean, when COVID happened, people said, you know, this is gonna end after COVID, but it just kept growing.
SPEAKER_00:Can you talk a little bit? Just paint a picture for our listeners, because I think they'll hear a number, like almost 5,000 founders in this network, and they'll think that's a lot of people who are. I mean, I I've been lucky enough to go to your conferences and spend time around the community. It's an amazing group of people. They're they're very pro-social, they're committed, they're passionate about what they're doing. Can you give just kind of a maybe even it some stories? You do such a good job of introducing people to the individuals that are involved. Just give give a picture for our listeners of who these people are.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, sure thing. I mean, I would hate to stereotype anyone, right? Because everyone's unique, everyone's got their own circumstances, right? But I will say that there are some kind of common types, right, if you will. And so, and there's some common motivations for why someone would even decide that they were gonna give up their, you know, successful job or whatever, or radically change their lifestyle to do, to do this and to start a new learning model. So one of the types we would say are, and we we like classify them, we have like types one through four. It's hilarious. But but one of the types, our our type one founders are tend to be people who they see it oftentimes their parents, they see a gap in the system, they see a gap in the market, and they see a specific sort of like group target audience of students who are not being served well by the current system, and then they just want to come in and close that gap, right? And so oftentimes you'll see them, you know, creating a program that's designed, for example, for neurodivergent learners or for gifted and talented learners, or maybe it's more culturally based, right? And so, or maybe it's more community-based, like this specific neighborhood in my my little town. And um, and so you see that they they just say, gosh, man, I can do something better, and these kids need my help, so we're gonna find a way to make it happen. Oftentimes there's a faith-based element to these to these programs that a founder will create, but we can see a lot of parents who are motivated to do this. So, a second type that we see often, these are former educators in traditional settings. We call them our type two founders. They are like just so thrilled to be an educator. They love their craft, they are true professionals, and they want to grow and develop as professionals. And for whatever reason, they feel constrained in their current professional setting and they say, you know what, I can do this myself. I can start a school, I can do something different, I know how to do it. Right. They usually feel really strongly about the actual practice of their craft, right? Like oftentimes you'll see peer plays around classical education or project-based learning or self-directed learning or mastery-based education. But they tend, yeah, they tend to be very much driven by educational practice and then a desire to deliver at an exceptionally high standard, right? And so they are just going full gusto and they want to, they're excited to be entrepreneurs and they're having a chance to express that in this alternative education environment. So that's like kind of like our second type.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:The third type, and these these first two types, by the way, comprise, I would say, the vast majority of the Vela Founder Network. Yeah. Then we have two types that are a little bit less common. We still see them, but they're a little bit less common. The third one are founders who are they tend to be community leaders and they're really motivated to try to save their community. And so you see, you see a lot of church leaders and pastors and And so their commitment is, you know, so goes education, so goes the neighborhood. So we've got to invest in education, but it's got to be laser focused, like in our neck of the woods, because we've got broader sort of societal level goals that we're trying to accomplish here. Um, so we do see those. And then finally, the fourth type are um, I would call them die-hard entrepreneurs who are just motivated by ideas. And so they tend to work. This is where I would put Kelly, you and me, right? Like work cross-domain. So maybe they like started in tech or in business or in science or whatever. They were in industry and they thought, hey, I've learned something there and I can apply it to the education space. And I think I might be able to have a positive impact in doing so. And so they come in and they want to test to see if they can can be helpful and create value in that way. So um, we see them as well. So it takes all types, but in each case, I mean, I would say that people are they have a level of courage and a willingness to be brave and they're gonna run up against the resistance of their friends and family members who tell them that they're nuts and they shouldn't do this, right? But they just can't not do it. Yeah. Right. So there are we call them unstoppable. There's this sense that they're unstoppably brave.
SPEAKER_00:It's so beautiful. And I I've had the privilege of meeting a lot of these people, specifically these ones, but you know, our community is actually very similar, comprised of we talk in very similar ways about who does Prenda. And it's interesting because I I imagine there's somebody listening right now that's like, yeah, I'm in type two. You know, I'm sitting there looking at my contract, the the school year's coming to a close. I have a pit in my stomach. I don't want to sign up for another year. I know that I'm not able to accomplish everything that my heart wants me, wants to do, but it's totally terrifying to jump out to embark on something new. And I part of the reason for this podcast is to normalize it, help them see that not only are there others doing it and it's becoming a movement, and there's there's it's it's less weird than it once was, right? Let's say you still will get some funny looks and questions. So I don't want to say this is we're mainstream at the moment. It will be though, and it's growing very fast. But being part of that movement, and then second is that there are resources. And can you kind of share a little bit about just what Vela does today for founders? I know it started with money, but it's it's much more than that at this moment in time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, sure thing. And so something we learned early on was that when you invite a founder to join the network and then you you support them, whether it's through in-kind resources or financial support, that's a show or a sign. It's a show of support and a sign that you believe in them. Right? You believe in what they're doing. And so this is incredibly important to founders, particularly those who are just getting started, right? And they're unsure of themselves and they might not necessarily know many other people who are doing what they're doing. And so when we're able to invite them in, say we believe in you, we're not gonna try to change you. We just want to help you. And we want to connect you to your peers so that you can learn and grow together so you can celebrate like the joys, but also like talk to each other and be a shoulder to cry on when things are tough because that's really hard. And so you need to really like kind of share this journey with other people. It's a human experience. And so, our support, um, here's how it works. Uh, we invite founders to join our network. We have a mobile app, you can get it in the uh Apple store or Google Play, download it, and join. And then once you're in, it takes about two business days to get accepted into the network. Once you're in the network, you can apply for a microgrant. And so those microgrants are up to$10,000. So they're small one-time grants, but when you're just getting started, that's a lot of money. It can make the a difference in really catalyzing your establishment as an organization. And and again, it gives like this confidence building. And then we so we've had uh about 3,200 founders who have received a microgrant at Vela. And then we have one more level of financial support, and that's what we call our reinvestment grants. And those um are up to 150,000, and we've done about 200 reinvestments. And so that's our our structure. Once you're in the app, though, there's access to other resources and support. So there's self-service on-demand resources, there's also connection to your fellow founders. We do live meetups, we do uh in in many different cities nationwide. We also do a big annual convening, and we we've got this social space where people are talking online and and whatnot. And now for the first time with the launch of our app, we have families in our app. So there's an ability to get connected to families. So we have about 800 families that have signed up to participate. Coming this, I feel like I'm just pitching shamelessly, but coming January, uh, there will be an opportunity for families to directly pitch what they're looking for for their kids and for founders to reach out to serve them.
SPEAKER_00:That's beautiful. Kind of playing with this market, this marketplace dynamic. Well, my next question is about barriers, but I think we just hit on several of them. So just to kind of quickly recap, some little bit of capital to kind of help you go. Somebody that literally takes you seriously and believes in you. I think one of the big barriers I see, and I think you'll agree, is you know, people talk themselves out of it. They they think, well, that's for so-and-so, that's for somebody that's more serious, or they have the right credential, or they have this or that. And and I think the actual realization, and you may be listening to this thinking, you know, I would love to do that, but it's not me. There's some voice in your head talking you out of it. And the realization that, wait, maybe it could be me is to me the still the number one barrier to all of this work. There's so many people that could be part of it, that could engage with it. And uh, I just want to tell them, yes, you know, show up, get the Vela app, get in there, talk to people. You'll see that these are your people that the if you're thinking this way, you belong to this movement and you can get help and support and you know, friends and you know, all of these different things, in addition to money and in-kind donation resources and things like that. What other are there any other things you would add to the barriers conversation, just as we think about what's getting in the way of more people starting?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, I would just echo, Kelly, much of what you said. You know, people ask us frequently who's your enemy? Like you're you're a dragon slayer, right? What are the dragons you're trying to slay? And and we'll say, you know what, in every case, not just in education, but in every case, your enemy is not, it's not a person, it's not a system, it's not, we're not like anti-public schools or anti-traditional schools at all. No, our enemy is the status quo mindset, right? It's the mindset, it's the mindset that holds you back and says, you know what, I can't do this. And and and it's always been done this way, and therefore it will always be done this way, and there's no possibility for change. And so that's the biggest barrier. So I think the way to slay that dragon is just when you find sense of belonging and common cause with people and you join that bandwagon and you just say, Oh, you know what, we're gonna go, yeah, we're gonna go slay this dragon of a mindset together, and and we're gonna get to where we're going. And you know what? That doesn't mean like I would never want to sell a fantasy, right? Right, or to sell bliss, because that's not what we're talking about. It's hard work, it's a challenge, it's not easy. You know, you're gonna find there's a lot of new learning models that are gonna start that might not make it. Others are gonna make it and they're gonna thrive. You're gonna fail, you're gonna, you know, hopefully learn and improve and iterate and try something different, right? And so, you know, the but having that mindset of, yeah, I can try this. It might not work the first time, but I'm gonna find a way through. That's that's the barrier that needs to be toppled.
SPEAKER_00:It's so powerful, Meredith, and I'm really grateful to you for just giving words to it, giving voice to it. I I think people really need to hear it. You've lived it and it adds power to your words, right? That the fact that you've done that not only in this world of education and and starting Vela and doing these things, but also really throughout your life and and you know, the story that you told earlier. It's basically, I see an opportunity. I'm audacious enough to take that on. And it's interesting because as you were speaking, you know, one of my questions is always, what can we say to a teacher or a parent that's, you know, they feel it, they they have an itch, but they're talking themselves out of it. I think you've given them the perfect pep talk. But as I was listening to you say it, I'm thinking, this is the exact speech that I would want to give to every kid, too, right? Every student in the whole country is basically, look, there's gonna be a lot of things that are gonna get in your way. It's gonna be tempting for you to just sort of allow school to happen to you, allow life to happen to you, to be a passive recipient of all of it, to kind of be a victim of other people's choices and and for you to recognize that there's power in you, in innate, inherent in you as a human being, and take that, just take it and accept it. It's a totally different approach. You could even go to the most controlling, you know, top-down authoritarian school environment. But if you have that perspective and that paradigm that this is my education, that I'm being deliberate, intentional, proactive with it, that I'm working toward achieving my goals and I'm not allowing someone else to dictate those for me, then you're basically setting yourself up for an empowered learner kind of life. And it's really exciting to think what that might be like for kids and for adults, for everybody in this movement.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. You know, I kind of think a lot of times we have to think through analogies, right? Because what's become commonplace in one space maybe isn't in another.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And so we can learn from that, right? So think about healthcare as an example. So I know deeply that I have to own my own health, meaning it's not my doctor's responsibility to make sure that I go and exercise and I eat properly, right? Like I own that. It's my responsibility. I go and seek out the advice of medical professionals as I'm like, you know, as I'm living my life, as I'm getting older, I'm like, oh God, I got to go to the eye doctor, whatever. They're not prescribing my health journey for me. I am doing that myself. But in education, we've been trained and conditioned to this idea in society that no, you passively receive your education, you're told what that journey is gonna look like, and then you just go follow it and you stay within the guardrails, right? Rather than, you know what, you actually own your learning experience. You own the knowledge acquisition that you acquire over time, and then you seek out educators that are gonna help you so that they can help form you and shape you, right? Rather than you being dependent on them, you're really driving them. So it doesn't mean that you need to become an education expert. No, it just means that you're in the driver's seat of your journey and you're gonna seek out the best advice possible. And so we've got to shift to that like ownership paradigm and away from this dependency paradigm that we've just been so familiar with for so long.
SPEAKER_00:It's so exciting, it's so powerful. I wish everybody could taste, just taste what this is like to feel because it might seem scary. I frankly, a lot of people are scared of it, right? It's it's like, oh, I don't know like the science of reading, that seems scary. I hear legislators talking about it. It's basically like phonics, you guys, so don't worry too much. I think that the main thing is, you know, we are gonna have a million readers.
SPEAKER_02:You'll learn to read in a hundred lessons. Yeah, it costs like 20 bucks.
SPEAKER_00:I literally have the book. It's like right here on my show.
SPEAKER_02:Do you really?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Did you do it with your I did it with my kids.
SPEAKER_00:My kids already already knew how to read when I first heard about that book. So it wasn't, I did not do it with my kids. But yeah, no, look, and and I think it's uh everything you're saying about kids, we would also say to their parents, right? I think parents in particular, as the the chief decision maker for a five-year-old, you're not really saying to your kid, okay, do the research, find a school, and I'll drive you there. It's like we're gonna make this choice together. I make it make it for you even, but hopefully acting in your best interest and helping you become that agent that can make choices for yourself eventually, right? You're gonna leave the home and go maybe to pursue other educational opportunities, work, whatever you're gonna do in your life. But I want you by that point, by the time I say goodbye to you, I want you to be in a position to really take ownership and then feel you know, it it shouldn't feel like terror. It should feel like power, right? And if you can really get to that point. But but practicing that over years and years. I think the reason why maybe so much of this neck this generation that's emerging right now does feel a little scared of it is frankly, we haven't given them chances to try it out in a safe, you know, maybe a padded, a padded fall, right? Instead of learning to ride a bike right next to a really busy highway, we could learn to ride a bike on a grass, a gentle grass slope, you know, that's a good place to fall down. So just giving them that that practice at taking ownership. Do you have anything to add on that? I know this is something you spend a lot of time thinking about.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, I mean, I honestly think it comes more naturally for the kids than it comes for the parents.
SPEAKER_00:It's harder for the parents.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think it's harder for the parents. And I love, I take so much inspiration from the homeschool community. And I I heard some words of wisdom probably five years ago now from some longtime homeschoolers, and they said, you know, we really think of our space as being divided between what we call the pioneers and the refugees. So the pioneers are the, you know, the decades-long multi-generational homeschool families, and they are look, they they they plowed that path the first time, right? And and so they've been there, they've done that, they took all the shots. It was really hard. In some cases, they broke laws. I mean, they made it happen and they were bravely forging ahead and they knew where they were going, right? They were determined and nothing was gonna stop them. Okay, but then they turn around and they look behind them and they see all these people who are refugees who are looking to be rescued, who want help, and they desperately want to be a pioneer, but they don't know how. Yeah. And so the pioneers are reaching back behind them to give guidance, assistance, and support so the refugees can can become pioneers themselves. And so I think to me, we have to honor both, right? So if you're somebody who wants to try something different and you don't know how, go go find a pioneer. I bet they're in your community.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:I bet because there's so many people pursuing unconventional education right now, you can find, if not a direct family member, then a friend of a family member, or like it's kind of like the Kevin Bacon game, like go a couple layers down and you can find somebody who's done this and just go talk to them. And and tell you, the folks who've been doing it a long time, they really want to help the people coming behind them. They they want to give back to them and show them, show them the ropes, put an arm around them and say, hey, you can do this. Let me show you how I've learned.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, in some ways, people ask me about Prenda, and in some ways that's exactly what happened, right? I started that microschool as a dad for my kid and some of my friends' kids in 2018. I don't know that I had this big picture at the time, right? It became clear over the course of one semester that there's something we've stumbled onto here that lots of people are gonna want. And the other insight was other people are gonna be capable of doing it. In fact, doing it better than I wasn't the best microschool guide, really. Like I did it because I cared and I did it because I thought it should exist. But, you know, when I've now gotten to meet and prend us helped a thousand people start microschools, so I'm watching these people do their thing. It's so inspiring just what they're capable of and how they bring their particular gifts and talents to bear. And each one's different, which I think is is beautiful. And yeah, at that point, it's like, okay, maybe my role is less about just running the microschool, and maybe my role is how can I pave roads or open doors and help help these people come. I just love what you guys are doing that as well, and just opening things up and trying to make it make it a safer jump. You know, it's the hurdles are still there, but if we can take them down a little bit and allow more people to participate in what's really an exciting movement and it's exciting times. So this is this is fun. I was just gonna say any other advice or uh guidance that you would give to teachers, parents, others who just want to see change in this movement.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I would just say, so we have some mantras at Vela. One of them I love. It's called Wild and Wise. And so be wild, meaning don't hold yourself back, you know, figure out what it is that motivates and drives you and just go get after that. Let your freak flag fly in a way, be wild, but also be wise, right? Meaning we find that founders um they deliver on their goals with care, with precision, and with discipline, also with kindness, right? So being wild and wise, that juxtaposition is really, really important, right? So this is not about going out there and being crazy and and dangerous. No, it's about being creative and spontaneous and being willing to experiment and learn and improve, but also always doing so with the spirit of like sort of discipline and care. And um, that would be that would be my advice to anyone thinking about this space is just to really embody that, um, that that wisdom, uh, but also a little bit of that wildness.
SPEAKER_00:Wild and wise. You heard it here first, folks. That's awesome. Meredith, I I love to ask people, and this has been such a fun conversation. I'm so inspired by you. Can you share just somebody from your life that's kindled a love of learning for you? And what what did they do that that made that the case?
SPEAKER_02:You know, um, so I'm I'm like one of those people who loved school. A lot of times you hear from people who say, I was terrible at school, I hated school. That was not me. Like I it was what motivated me. I loved it every single day. Traditional settings, alternative settings, all of it. Um But I like I always learned through like process. Here's what you do, model it, and then go do it and repeat it. And um when I when I finally made it, I was in my 20s, I was in grad school, like late 20s. I was in a class, I was taking economics classes, and I was getting cold called all the time, and we were being forced to answer like why things happen. How you know, so it wasn't just a process, but you had to know like how the world worked and why and the interplay of incentives and all this other kind of stuff. And I was like, oh my gosh, I gotta figure this out. Like, what makes people tick? How do they make decisions? How does this work? And I had a professor, his name was um, he was a macroeconomics professor, his name was John Haizinga, and I remember this because this quote killed me. So students were saying, you know, how can people possibly do all the math to make economic decisions? And like, how are people living and functioning? And he says this. He says, No one ever taught a bird the physics of how to fly, but birds sure do fly. They fly. And I thought, okay, all right, it's that, right? So how does this happen? Like how and that has been motivating me and compelling me ever since. It's like, how does the world work? How do we know? How are decisions made? It's not because of the math. You can do all the spreadsheets you want, but that's not what's motivating decision making. So always be alert to what's happening in in the real world, on the ground with real people and real interactions. Don't keep your eye off that ball. Always learn.
SPEAKER_00:Meredith, you're inspiring. It's uh just your curiosity and your wonder. It's it contagious, really. Like it makes me want to go uh experience time with birds, maybe, or spend some time. I do want to go understand the physics of it too, but all of it, you know, I just I want to learn all of the things because I'm sitting here talking to you, and and I love what you're doing for kids and for families and for the education sector as a whole. So thank you for your great work and thanks for being here with us on the podcast today. It's been a sheer delight.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Kelly. I'm so happy to be here.
SPEAKER_00:All right, goodbye.
SPEAKER_01:The Kindled Podcast is brought to you by Prenda. Prenda makes it easy to start and run an amazing microschool based on all the ideas we talk about here on the Kindled Podcast. Don't forget to follow us on social media at Prenda Learn, and if you'd like more information about starting a microschool, just go to Prenda.com. Thanks for listening and remember to keep Kindling.
