KindlED | The Prenda Podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments through microschooling. Powered by Prenda, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle curiosity, motivation, and well-being in young learners. Do you have a question, topic, or story you'd like to share with us? Get in touch at podcast@prenda.com.
KindlED | The Prenda Podcast
Episode 87: Innovating From Within: Public Microschools. A Conversation with Victoria Andrews.
We explore how joy, autonomy, and real-world experiences transform learning from third grade to high school, and how microschools inside and alongside public systems meet students where they are. Victoria Andrews shares the question that changed her career and the playbook that’s guiding leaders forward.
• third grade classrooms built on autonomy, stations, and projects
• high schoolers engaged through internships, externships, and community partners
• logistics and impact of running a hundred field trips in a year
• exposure as a driver of curiosity, confidence, and purpose
• the catalytic pause after being asked do you love it
• building and supporting microschools as responsive community tools
• public district partnerships, declining enrollment, and agile design
• student dignity, choice, and culturally relevant practices
• historical roots of microschools in indigenous and freedom schools
• practical ways educators can propose microschools within districts
About our guest
Victoria recently served as the Assistant Director for an International Baccalaureate School and guided students and staff through virtual and in person learning. Previously, she served as a Dean at Energy Institute High School, a magnet school with a project-based learning focus on energy. Here, Victoria paired students with summer programs based on their unique interests, developed an internship program for multiple grade levels, created experiential learning opportunities, coordinated field trips, and worked closely with the community and industry partners. Victoria is passionate about serving as a connector and collaborator for underrepresented communities while supporting unique learning environments.
Connect with Victoria
Victoria Andrews
Getting Smart Microschools Initiative
Got a story to share or question you want us to answer? Send us a message!
About the podcast
The KindlED Podcast explores the science of nurturing children's potential and creating empowering learning environments.
Powered by Prenda Microschools, each episode offers actionable insights to help you ignite your child's love of learning. We'll dive into evidence-based tools and techniques that kindle young learners' curiosity, motivation, and well-being.
Got a burning question?
We're all ears! If you have a question or topic you'd love our hosts to tackle, please send it to podcast@prenda.com. Let's dive into the conversation together!
Important links:
• Connect with us on social
• Get our free literacy curriculum
Interested in starting a microschool?
Prenda provides all the tools and support you need to start and run an amazing microschool. Create a free Prenda World account to start designing your future microschool today. More info at ➡️ Prenda.com or if you're ready to get going ➡️ Start My Microschool
I'm at this new campus. We're doing good work. I'm proud of the work we're doing. And he asked me a question. He said, Are you happy? Paused too long. And that was like enough time for him to pull out his card and say, Hey, give us a call and let's have a conversation about what you're doing. But that I always think about that moment.
SPEAKER_02:I've heard you say, Do you love it? Like, do you really think it's a good idea? Do you love it? Yeah, like do you do it?
SPEAKER_01:And it was like, mmm. It wasn't that I was a line or anything. It was just like it was the pause was long enough.
SPEAKER_02:Welcome to the Kindled Podcast. I'm your host, Kelly Smith, and today I'll be talking to Victoria Andrews from Getting Smart. Victoria is a teacher, administrator. She has deep experience innovating inside the public school system. She's a true advocate for kids. I think you're gonna love her energy and the work she's done to bring kids on field trips, get them out of the classroom, engage with real world experiences. She's currently leading Getting Smart's initiative around micro schools and heavily involved in helping people open up new schools, whether that's affiliated with traditional school districts or otherwise. We'll talk about what it means to be a learner, what really works for engagement, how important it is to give choices both to families, to parents, and to educators. I know you're gonna love Victoria, you're gonna enjoy this conversation. So with that, let's get into it. Okay, Victoria Andrews, we're so excited you're here on the Kindled Podcast. Thank you for joining.
SPEAKER_01:So grateful to be here. Thanks for the invitation.
SPEAKER_02:I want to start kind of going way back in time, or maybe it's not that far back. I mean, you don't have that many years to talk about. But at one point, you were teaching third grade and you've spent time around these little young people. And I just was filled with joy hearing you talk about the environment you had in that third grade class. I mean, it sounded like a place where kids felt very safe. There was high engagement, they wanted to be there. Can you just talk a little bit about sort of third grade? And maybe this is like a third grade of yesteryear, kind of before some of the you know what I'm saying? Can you can you give us just a picture and bring us there?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. So for a little bit of context, I loved middle school. So that's where I started. You have to be a little crazy to teach middle school, and that gives you insight into who I am. So I loved adored sixth grade, and I told my friend I would never go to elementary. We were on a K through A campus, and every year she was like, I believe you're gonna come to elementary. You're gonna come to elementary. I was like, no, I will never do elementary. They're so small, I can't do it. And there was an opening, and I was like, okay, I'll go. And I absolutely loved it. Out of my like 15 plus years in education, it is single-handedly the like most impactful, the most memorable, the most joy-filled, and the most painful because I was coming from middle school. So I'm expecting like, you know, there's class changes and all of this, but I was um departmentalized, so I was language arts and reading and social studies. And I had a a teaching partner who was my school BFF, and the classroom, like you said, it was just filled with so much autonomy and stations and project-based learning, and I'm even teaching students how to read. Um, you know, third grade, especially here in Texas, it's the the testing year. So parents have a little bit of anxiety, the kids do as well. But it's still a year that can be filled with so much energy and just the joy for learning. And it made me a better teacher. I learned how to do personalized learning in a totally different way that I hadn't done it before. Honestly, it was very different. I became more of the project manager of the class and less of just like the sage on the stage. Like when I went back to middle school after that third grade year, I felt like I did a disservice to my previous years because I had learned so much. But I, yeah, that third grade year just there were tears on both ends at times.
SPEAKER_02:It is, it is a lot. And I've said this before it was messy. One of my early microschools had a bunch of third and fourth graders, and there were tears for sure. I mean, these kids were grappling with, you know, what it feels like to take on something hard for them. You know, on the math side, I'm a big math guy. It was fractions and decimals and some of these things that weren't intuitive concepts. And, you know, you could see them just struggling with it. But it was so important for them to have a place where they could do that, you know, where that messy work can take place. And it's interesting. I know we'll we'll get into junior high and high school. And I, of course, love those ages too. And I know that that's where your heart is and your so much of your experience. But yeah, I wanted to kind of go there because I think you experienced something that I think most of us want to picture, right? When we think about a learning environment, a school environment. We want to think about this just high engagement, lots of adaptation to each individual child and for those kids to feel seen and and understood.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, very much so. And that's something that I did take with me, like moving forward, like you mentioned, for middle school and for high school too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Well, let's move forward to high school. We'll skip all the way through those middle school years, but I know you you did both. What, yeah, what is it that that happens and why is it kind of so different? You know, I remember I feel like I was probably 16, 17 years old, and I got in trouble for going to the bathroom without asking permission or something. It just felt very, you know, I was like, I'm big, I'm I'm in an adult body. I'm yeah, you know, it was a it's it's you'd be able to do these things. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what you saw and experienced? And I know you you've been in a variety of schools and education settings, but yeah, just talk a little bit about what you're seeing at a macro level.
SPEAKER_01:So again, promised that I would never go to high school. And through a unique opportunity in the district that I was in at that time, I was able to join a founding school team. And we were building a school that was project-based learning, that incorporated the community, that provided young people with internships and externships and just really just different practices. And this is almost, I would say, like 12 years ago. So a lot of just newness in the district, a newness in the space, even we were new in the community, which wasn't initially well received. And just taking what I knew from elementary and trying to incorporate and middle school incorporate it in high school. I was on a team where I was the only person that had the leadership team, the only person that had any middle school or elementary background. And I was just in my mind, I was like, there's no way we're just supposed to suck the joy out of high school. Like, why do the elementary, the middle school teachers get to have all the fun, all the joy, all of the um autonomy, all of the freedom and the liberty? My mission was like, how can I insert? Well, I there was a year I did teach and was an administrator, how can I incorporate those key facets into learning? Because truly, like you said, 16 to 17 year olds, they're just like they're third graders with bigger bodies, essentially. So they still need that. They still need all of the engagement, the connection. And, you know, it wasn't always met with open arm. There were some like friction moments where, you know, my voice was not always valued because I didn't have the high school experience. I did not teach high school and love the high school, my high school people down very hard, love them hard. They some high school, you know, that it's like that, like it's a rite of passage to teach high school. Like you are, you know, like you're the last guard before they go out into the world. And it's like, it doesn't have to be that way.
SPEAKER_02:So interesting. So it's I think it's important to just pause and, you know, celebrate everybody that's fighting this fight in at the high school level in particular, because you know, you're in there, you know, out of, I guess, out of all the people, this could have been worse, right? You had a group of folks that were dedicated to project-based learning, for example, trying to do things in an innovative new way. You're already in the let's see what's possible kind of world. And still, even there, running into these maybe past assumptions, there's inertia, there's cultural barriers, there's probably also regulatory and kind of restrictive barriers, people telling you no to various things and various ideas. And the net result, I think what you're describing, and you're saying it politely, so I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but the net result is I see what I could do for these young people in high school that could be really engaging. And maybe it's not a surprise. You know, one of the stats we've talked about on this podcast is engagement plummets from third grade to senior year. You really see, you know, it's two-thirds of kids are engaged in third grade, and one third of kids, so you're flipping, you know, and you just see that number go. And and unfortunately, I was part of that statistic, you know, by the time I was graduating high school, I was I was doing well. I mean, I got good grades, but I was ready to get out of there. I I didn't see the point. I didn't want to be there. Yeah. So yeah, I it sounds like you've experienced what could what could happen. And I know you guys toured around and you saw some of these these showy, you know, project-based learning experiences. There's a lot of a lot of great work that's been out there. Um, yeah, talk about what you learned kind of starting and and running this project-based high school, being part of that founding team.
SPEAKER_01:There were so many things, so many learnings, especially about myself. Just wanting to be, you know, when you're you're young and you're eager and you're on a leadership team and you're starting something new. It's like being a part of a startup. You, like you said, you know, you can start to see the possibilities of what school can be. And just how I led would be totally different of how I let lead now. When it taught me like to really lead with people first. We were, I mean, the school is situated in Houston, Texas, one of the most diverse cities in the country. And what I'm extremely proud of is that the school's dynamics mimicked the dynamics of the city. So primarily black and Hispanic, and then even black and Hispanic boys and from all over the city. And so you have students that may have had some experience with Montessori, or some students exposed to like traditional learning, or some students from private school or homeschool. And then they come together in this high school and we're introducing them to project-based learning. Some people have an experience with it, some don't. We expose young people to internships during their junior and senior year, and even earlier, we exposed young people to travel abroad programs. We did, I think I was telling you, we did like some almost hundred field trips a year, which you when you think about a comprehensive public school district, that is unheard of. I can't even imagine it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, in in in any context. So yeah, Victoria was in you were in charge, you were in charge of the field trips and you guys did more than a hundred in one year. Give us just like some examples. I mean, help help the listening audience. Because if you guys are like me, you're out there hearing like a hundred in a year. How is that even possible? Like, how could you possibly do that? Can you get kind of paint a picture for us? Yeah, how did that happen? How would you get ideas for it?
SPEAKER_01:So the teachers we worked with were amazing, the educators in that space. So some of them came from an education background and some of them came from business backgrounds. So they're like, hey, my friend owns a 3D printing studio down the street. Can we take 20 kids there? So just to expose them, sure. Yeah. We at that time took the whole freshman class to a solar panel farm a little bit out of the outside of the city. We took students to bayous, we took students to the zoo, we took students to um just like name a place in Houston. And we were we were trying to figure out how to get students there. And it was like, it really is that startup mentality where it's like if a student if an educator comes to you and it's like, hey, we have this amazing idea, you're like, how can we make it work? How are we gonna figure it out? Um, I still have bus drivers' phone numbers in my cell phone to this day of just like, hey, where are you? School's about to end, we need you back on campus. Like, are y'all on your way? Yes, we are. Had students that went to go see Hamilton. Like, there were so we we we uh embraced the humanities, even though it was the focus was energy focused and engineering, but we really embraced the humanities. So let me just truly name a place and we were taken students. So it was it was nuts.
SPEAKER_02:As a STEM person who loves engineering and math and energy, I also believe in the humanity. So thank you for that. Yeah, thanks. That's great. Well, yeah, I think a lot of us are listening to this, and you know, it's it's sort of like where would you even start? I think immediately the first thing that goes up is just the logistics of it all. And you got people coming and going, and you got to somehow work all these things out. It is a harder way to do school for sure, right? I mean, I think everybody would acknowledge. So if your goal is easy, stop listening right now. Don't consider get out. Yeah, yeah, just run, just run the old, the old model. And and kudos to everybody who's willing to take that on. Now, once you even decide, okay, I intuitively believe it's interesting you say that some of these people didn't have that education background. They kind of came and said, look, just common sense. It makes sense to me that learning is going to be better, richer, more impactful for these young people if they see it in the wild, in the real world, they meet someone that's not inside of this, you know, the whole high school thing can feel a little contrived, right? You're you're in this box, your box, and you're sitting here and this person's telling you things, but to actually see what's going on. Yeah. And I think intuitively that makes sense. I I would imagine, I actually haven't, I'm not an expert on the research on this, but my guess is that there's research that kids that get out, you know, are also having these types of experiences, that engagement goes up. Uh, and one of the better things, and I love how you've described this, some of these were system field trips with everybody. Some of them, a lot of them were kind of smaller groups. It was built around their their project, their interest. So as you can sort of support, engage, and encourage these passions and interests that are developing in these young people. I mean, one of the things we talk about a lot on the Kindled podcast, Kindled Starting Fires, is like you're trying to start a fire here, right? And starting a fire is a really delicate operation. You've got to get just the right mix. I need the heat and the fuel and the air and the oxygen. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. And so that's you guys. And you're like, okay, well, this for these three kids, going to this place and seeing this thing is actually going to be potentially a flame starter for them. And you'll hear these stories, I'm sure, later. And maybe you you have some off the top of your head because you've seen these kids now grow up. Would love to just hear how you saw that working and the combination of project-based learning, individualized attention, and the freedom to do things that maybe are a little different than what most kids get to do in high school.
SPEAKER_01:Um, again, like I said, the students came from all over the city of Houston. So, like two stories come to mind really quickly. One is the OTC conference, I think it's the offshore technical conference, is held in Houston, Texas. And so we had students that were we were energy focused schools. So we we took students there. And it was, I remember it was such a big deal because they were just like, Well, what are the kids going to do? It's like they're going to technical conference. And they're going to this is the focus. Like, they are going to learn beside you. It's like, well, we don't have any sessions for these kids. And eventually it got to the point where like they wanted to hear from them. And so that was super impactful to those young people, but not just to those young people, but also to like the attendees of those conferences because you can't say, like, we're here for work-based learning. Like on the industry side, the talent pipeline is drawing up. Well, when did you start the pipeline? Did you start the pipeline like years ago and exposing young people when they were in middle school elementary and then exposing them all the way through? Or did you start the pipeline like yesterday and you're just like upset that there aren't any college kids coming to your booth or whatever? So that's one story I think about often. Another one in the way of experiential learning. We worked alongside an organization called Discover You. And so we have this portal where students get to basically are matched with different programs that have been vetted across the country and even globally. And some of them are no cost or low cost, or if they need some financial assistance, there is financial aid available. And there was a young person who had never been outside of Houston. Like city limits, like straight up and barely their neighborhood. And for various reasons, you know, like just whether it was just whatever ever the reasons, and they ended up going not just outside of the city limits, but outside of the state and doing some camping and some fishing and some hiking in Seattle, Washington, as they came back a changed person. They are so sophomore. And we think about like for some people, like I think we also take experience for granted. So, like I grew up traveling and our family had an annual trip and things of this nature. But for so many young people, whether it's financial barriers or just time constraints or family or cultural barriers, they just hadn't had that experience. And I remember that student coming back and they were like literally on fire to tell other, like, oh Kelly, you gotta go to Seattle. Like, you gotta, you gotta do this program because they'll take you fishing and they take you camping, and I learned how to make a fire out of foil. So just seeing those opportunities, and like you said, that's a Kindle, like a small, like this, you have this student who never left Houston who is now on fire to share their experience with so many of their classmates.
SPEAKER_02:It really is a beautiful story, and it's it's powerful just to think about, you know, if if you've only seen this, I mean, think of Houston. It's a large city, it's a particular climate, you know. I don't want to bag on the bag on the humidity, no, my hair's getting big because of the humidity. So yeah. Uh, but you know, it it maybe isn't known for like pleasant outdoor temperatures. But now all of a sudden you go, you go see Seattle, and Seattle has its own issues. Like people that only have been in Seattle need to go to Houston, right? It's both it's goes both ways. So, you know, I I love this every time I do a lot of hiking, I live in Arizona, and you know, people like me that live in Arizona were kind of like big deal, like rocks, you know, cactus. Like we've seen it all before, but I'll literally have people come from all over the world. I'll meet someone on the trail that's come from what I think of as the most beautiful parts of the world, like Germany and Switzerland. And they're they've chosen to come to Arizona and hike in these rocks and cactus. And I look at them and I just watch the wonder. But you can see, I think it is something about just experiencing something different than yourself. And I think that's true about place. I mean, I love that this kid was camping and fishing and just kind of spending time outdoors. It doesn't even need to be a program, you know. But it's also true about people, meeting people that are different than you, older than you, younger than you, engaged in different activities. It's true about cultures, experiencing different ways that humans do life. And, you know, you can think of all these different things and, you know, trying to find cost-effective ways to give that type of education, that type of real world experience. I know there are many people, both inside traditional schools and a lot of alternative education, but much beyond that too, like communities and families and just a lot of people working in this in this work. So just a celebration of all of you. Thank you for the great work you're doing. Let's bring bring these kids out. And um, yeah, I have a good friend that every time he goes to a new place just walks. And he doesn't get a map, doesn't get a phone. He just he just goes outside and starts walking. And I think it's just the coolest thing. It's like you experience the world. And I I think how can you do that? Because you're gonna what if you waste time? What if you go to the wrong place? Or but the the point is there's no wrong answer. It's like you're gonna learn regardless.
SPEAKER_01:Your your friend has a twin in me. Like there's whenever I travel, I like to just what I say get lost. And my mom is, of course, drives my mother crazy because I'm just like, I'm not gonna take my phone, I'm not gonna take my watch, nobody can track me. Like there's something about discovering something for yourself by yourself and no GPS, no ways app to tell you wrong turn. Right. Because, like you said, what is what is a wrong turn when you are truly wondering and you're just sitting in awe and exploring and being curious about a space instead of like I gotta go to bop, bop, bop, and you know, I have to see this this thing and it has to come at this time so I can catch it on this phone that's gonna capture it and it'll be lost in my eight other thousand pictures. But it's just like to experience a space.
SPEAKER_02:So cool. Well, this was not part of our of our I know, but Love Depot. We are like ironically or fittingly, we are on a detour right now in the conversation, which I love. And I actually want to stay on it a little bit longer just to hear. I can think of a story I'll share. And then I would love to hear one from you about getting lost and and the joy of that. Um, I got to spend some some people know this, like I could spend a summer when I was single and in college. I I did a summer in Mozambique and I was doing research working with one of these microfinance institutions, and I was just meeting people. I had an address every time. So I was trying to go find someone's house, but the addresses weren't that clear. And you had to do a lot of like talking to people along the way and finding. And then after the meeting, I would often just be sort of walking back. I don't, I didn't have a phone at all available to me. So it was um, yeah, it was very much just like a I was lost all the time and completely lost, not only physically lost, but culturally lost. And, you know, even even I I speak Portuguese, so I thought, okay, Portuguese is the official language of Mozambique, but that wasn't really spoken in a lot of these neighborhoods that I was, you know, there were dialects and things. And so I remember this moment. I I made friends with some kids. Kids are always easier to just bridge these gaps. And and we are talking, and they taught me how to say, Well, I bought an orange from a little fruit side, like a fruit stand on the side of the road, and I was so messy, and everybody thought it was like hilarious. Like they were making fun of me for just being all sticky and you know, um, and I learned how to say in the Shanghana dialect, I learned how to say, Can I have some water to wash my hands? You know? Like, because I needed to go find some water in one of these. And so I went up to this lady and I was like, Nakumbella mati para yakuma voco. And she looked at me like, what? Like she did not expect to see someone like me speaking Shanghana dialect and asking for water. And it was just like all of it put together was just this moment that was so memorable. I don't even know what about it I love so much, but it's like a time that just really stuck with me. And it all started with getting lost and doing something unexpected along along the way. Yeah, I'd love to hear a story from you too. I'm sure you have a million.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh. I'm gonna um trying to think a really good one. I know, one that my mom won't like freak out about too. Because some of them she's like, what she'll listen to. Will she be listening? Okay.
SPEAKER_02:She's a hello to Victoria's mom. Welcome. Welcome to the podcast. She is a uh, she's a Victoria's Stan. So we'll try not to scare her too much with the story. Although look, you're back safe now, so yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Uh let's see. When we I would say probably in actually with her. So we were just in, we were in Greece about two years ago. And I think we were in Santorini at the time. And there were at least like twice where and it was my not just me, but it was me, my sister, and my mom. And she had always wanted to go on a daughter's trip, and we'd surprise her at Thanksgiving. That was a whole thing. And to this day, she's like, I can't believe y'all surprised me. And we we were just we truly were just like exploring. Like there were days that we had specific activities and events, but then there were at least we would try to carve out, you know, like, oh, for dinner, we're just gonna walk. We're just gonna walk down this path, we're just gonna like explore, we're going to not over-contrive the trip, but just truly embrace how like how you can just be curious and how you can just embrace not knowing and embrace the uncertainty. So I remember we were, I believe we were Santorini, if I remember correctly, and we were trying to find like, you know, the most picturesque place, but we didn't want to ask. We were just like just walking around, wandering, and but also didn't want to go where the crowds were. This guy um told us about this restaurant. Cause you, you know, after a while you kind of look lost. And so he walks up and he's like, I think you guys should go to this restaurant. We're like, we're trying to, you know, get a good view. He was like, just go in, have a, you know, enjoy yourselves for a quick little drink or appetizer, and then leave. And he's like, This is the perfect time. Nobody was in the restaurant, and the restaurant had very windy, like, staircase, and you kind of turn this corner, and it's almost like something out of a like a Disney movie. It was so picturesque. And the sun was like these beautiful mixture of like peach and like mango and violet and indigo, and like we just all kind of sat there and didn't say anything because it was just like the the awe of it just overwhelmed us, and like we just trusted a stranger and it worked out, and we were just like taken aback at just so much the the splendor of it, the gracefulness of it, the timeliness of us all being able to be together, just like how blessed we were to be able to even enjoy that. And you know, I think this is like on the heels of the pandemic. So um, but just coming out of all of that and being able to share in a moment like that where you're just speechless.
SPEAKER_02:It feels sacred almost. And I'm I'm sitting here, I wasn't even there, but I feel like part of it in a way. Just thank you for sharing that. That's that's so amazing. What a beautiful thing. Well, you can see why, you know, when we talk about education, and we'll get into kind of how Victoria is working to change education for lots and lots of young people. As we talk about it, we really that this is so much more than you know getting a test score on a math test or getting a grade in an English class. I mean, this is about being human, that experience of being human and learning in deep and profound ways about this world around us. And I think, you know, I think we have both agree there's so much, so much more to this. And so, how can we sort of adapt our systems to be more supportive of this type of human development? So let's get into that. If you're if you're okay with it, I'm ready to jump to kind of the the next phase. We've had Tom Vanderck on the podcast before. I think our listeners will know him well. Just a visionary luminary in this world. I know he's been a friend and mentor to you. You've joined Getting Smart, which is an initiative started by Tom. And can you just share a little bit about kind of your your path? I thought this was such a good story of how you know you were kind of doing something different. You didn't feel like fully self, you know, maybe self-determining in that moment. And and you get this just cutting question from from Tom Vanderart. Can you kind of share the story?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. So I knew Tom and the crew when I was working with that, like I said, the founding school team here in Houston. And he started, he um and the team at that time exposed, like you said, did a lot of discovery visits to schools like High Tech High and Windstone and other schools across the country that are just were doing and still are doing amazing work in the way of project-based learning, of teaching, autonomy, and even how they treat their educators. And I would, I joined that founding team like a year later. And so I didn't go on other trips, but I'd heard about it so much. And then when our school was like up and running, Tom would bring different people to our school so to give them tours. And if you do know Tom, you sometimes you get, you know, two weeks' notice, and sometimes you get like two days' notice. But that just shows his passion of just like wanting to amplify good work that's being done. So some time had passed, and I wasn't at that campus anymore. And I happened to see Tom and the crew on South by Southwest. And I wasn't even gonna go to that session that day. I didn't even know that they were presenting that day. And I just happened to pop in and the session ended, and he was like, What have you been up to? You're not at that campus anymore. I was like, No, I'm at this new campus. It's you know, we're just doing, we're doing good work. I'm proud of the work we're doing. And he asked me a question. He said, Are you happy? Paused too long. And that was like enough time for him to pull out his card and say, Hey, give us a call and let's have a conversation about what you're doing. But that I always think about that moment because it wasn't that I wasn't happy. It just wasn't my um like it was too much space.
SPEAKER_02:I've I've heard you tell this, I've heard you say, Do you love it? Like, do you really love it? Do you love it? Yeah, like do you doing?
SPEAKER_01:Do you love your dude? And it was like, mmm. And that that hesitate, that pause, um, you know, it's that pause that catches killers, that pause that like catches people in the line. It wasn't that I was a lying or anything. It was just like it was the pause was long enough for him to just and for me to also like self-reflect, like, yeah, I'm doing good work, but I don't love it. And so after conversations, he invited me to join the team to help other schools build and redesign what learning looks like for young people so that there is more joy, that it is more human-centered, it is innovative, it does take into account the different communities. And I've been with Getting Smart now for almost three and a half years and have been able to, it was like a full circle moment to have to work alongside educators, whether they're microschool founders or districts or nonprofits, to help them on their journey as they stretch the bounds of what is possible and what learning can look like. And as they even stretch their own thinking and understanding of what kind of learner I am as an adult and how do I create conditions for young people to explore and expand.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well, I want to talk about all of that. I think it's so exciting the work you you guys are doing. But let's pause just briefly on this soul penetrating moment where you got asked a question. Because I I honestly think there are people, you know, both in traditional educator roles, but also just parents, others that are listening to this, that if you were to ask them that question, do you love it? And then there would be a there would be a brief pause. And what's crazy about humans is we've got our internal, like somehow we know, right? Our systems are running. And so it's not that I'm miserable, it's not that I can't stand another day. I meet I meet those people too. Like they reach out to us on that. But there are people that are like, you know, I'm fine, like I'm fine. And it's almost like a period at the end of fine, or sometimes it's an exclamation mark, just adamantly protecting themselves against like the risky. Because if not, if I feel myself pulling for something bigger or striving to stretch me in some way that's it's gonna be uncomfortable. I think we all know that, right? We know that it's easier to just stay with the status quo. And I just am so inspired by the many, many people who will kind of heed that voice as you, you know, you you could have very easily stayed comfortable. And instead, do you love it? You know, you paused long enough and uh and and Tom noticed it as a master does, and and all of a sudden there's that invitation. So just if if that's you, you're out there and it's do you love it? Whatever it is for you and what you're doing, if the answer is yes, great. Like I'm so happy for you. If you're hesitating, maybe spend just a couple minutes like thinking about what your version of impact on the world might be. And I think too many of us talk ourselves out of that. So that's the end of that public service address. Talk to me about, okay. So you are, Victoria, you're in charge of microschools for getting smart. And I love that Tom caught the vision of microschools early. He's been talking about all of the stuff. You guys have been champions for this. We've crossed paths in the microschool world. Give me a little bit about what, like, what are you learning about microschools and what are you seeing in this in this movement?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so like you said, Getting Smart has done pods and blogs on microschools like dating back at least 10 years ago, and just how they can be hubs for innovation, research, and design, how they can be responsive to the community. And about three years ago, we were able to partner with the Walton Family Foundation, and they wanted us to help them support microschool founders and in various aspects and components. And so that honestly, I had no background knowledge with microschools at that time, but my colleagues, uh Jordan Luster and I, we just dove in like feet first, and we just learned as much as we could and continue to learn as much as we can. There's a lot of overlap with being a part of a team that helps start a school and microschool founders. You have to recruit for your, you know, recruit for your staff, recruit for your students, recruit for your families. How are you responding to the needs? How are you being agile? The budget is can be a little bit leaner. And then there's some stuff that I don't know because I haven't been a micro school founder, but I empathize with. Though, because of that background, they were like, hey, you're perfectly suited to help, you know, be a part of this campaign initiative. And so during that time, we were able to run two grant programs, micro grants for micro schools. We were exceptionally proud of the people that we supported because they were diverse micro school founders. They were doing things that were unique and different. They were also being responsive to their communities. And some of them had efforts to partner with the public school districts. And so that was something that we also wanted to make sure that we supported because we did it. Education doesn't need another divide. It just doesn't. We don't have the space. Like we're all trying to do what's right and better for families, caregivers, and young people. And so to those microschool founders that were trying to do that in those veins, partner with public entities we wanted to support. We ran about three communities of practice. We did an incubator. We recently completed a public public microschool playbook with Transcend and Learner Center Collaborative that we're extremely proud of, that is free on the site. And it helps guide leaders and superintendents and nonprofit organization leaders on how to start public microschools or even to partner with people to do that. And what we were extremely proud of is that it has the voice of microschool founders as well as superintendents that helped to create that playbook. It wasn't just us in a corner thinking about what we thought was going to be good. It's the actual voice and input of people that are doing the work. And it has exceptional examples from across the country too. So that's the work that we've been doing, and we're super proud of it too.
SPEAKER_02:You should be. So tell tell me a little bit about what that voice is, you know. As you talk to, I'll just share briefly a story because my uh initial thought with microschools, you know, I've started, apprentice started a thousand plus microschools. So we've done a lot. My initial thought was let's do this on campus, right? This is a way of small groups learning together in a safe environment that really brings out the best in kids. Obviously, lots of field trips and all of that too, but like we like we've been talking about. But, you know, I went in and I sat down with uh a really talented school leader, principal that I respect. And to this day, I would I would count this person as a great educator. I mean, honestly. And I I sat down, I kind of explained what we're doing. You could see that the wheels were turning. Uh, you know, it's a micro school's a very different format than what she was used to. And she kind of looked at me, processed it, and then the the question back was was very telling. It was at this time, you know, it's for this pre-micro school movement, but she just kind of said, Why would I do that? You know, and and I I I don't think of it. She didn't mean it, you know, in a mean way. It's just like she's got a whole system to operate and all these things to to worry about, and to shake it up to the degree that we are, it really would require some some commitment. I think now what we're seeing is you are starting to see districts, you know, superintendents, principals get that. You know, they see the the answer to that question is it's because there are kids that need it. You know, there are kids that this is education that would change their lives, and that's worth it. It's worth being uncomfortable on the part of the system. But, you know, I I would love to hear kind of your take on this question and and what are you seeing today just in in tradit more traditional kind of school leadership capacities?
SPEAKER_01:What we're seeing is people sitting with hard questions. Like enrollment across the country has been declining for public education, as well as attendance numbers are dropping, especially post-pandemic, because people are like, wait a minute, I can still, you know, do school, earn the grade, do the things you want me to do, and I don't have to be in a classroom from from eight to three. And then we're also seeing just public school leaders looking at hard data of like what populations are not having the a learning experience that's really transformative. So it might be your Black and Hispanic students, it might be your, you know, students with neurodiverse needs, it might be your students that are unhoused, it might be the girls, like a group of middle school girls, or it might be your freshman class, whatever that demographic is. School leaders are looking at like numbers, you know, and saying, like, hey, we're not meeting the needs of this demographic, or we're not, we're hearing from the community, or we're hearing from these young people too. And so that's who what we're seeing. We're seeing micro schools for unhoused youth that are agile and flexible and that they can still do internships, but also maybe they're a parent as well. Like they might be a young person that's also a parent. We're seeing micro schools come up that are like, hey, we know that that sixth grade year is a tricky transition year. So we're gonna do something different to make sure that our young people are supported and that they do still feel seen and valued, and that they are having a great time in middle school. It's possible for you to still have a good time enjoy in middle school and it not, you know, take away your dignity and humanity. So we're seeing a lot of public institutions that are like, hey, we've got to do something different. If we're gonna continue to do the same thing, we're gonna continue to get those same results. Yeah. And they're seeing micro schools as a as a kind of a playground to try out how can we make smaller, even smaller small groups, how can we make it more human-centered? How can we embed those social and emotional and culturally relevant practices that we know that are true or that are helpful for this demographic so that it can be successful.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's beautiful. And I I think what's interesting and standing out to me in your answer is this is not like a rejection of everything you know in education, like throw out the old, replace it with this new. There are people that look at it this way. I actually don't. I I think there are there needs to be a wide variety of options and modalities. And so you see these enlightened school leaders and district leaders that are saying, no, you know, this is not the enemy. This is one possible tool in our toolkit. Yeah. And we can run some micro schools and have big classes and you know, sports programs and all these different things and give parents choices, give kids choices, even within within the day, right? As I think we've all seen this. When a human's invited to make a choice about themselves and their life, they're gonna be more engaged. It's just naturally gonna happen. Where if you take that away, you're getting back to the go to the bathroom kind of question, it's uh it's hard to feel like you use the word dignity, but it is hard to feel fully engaged and and bought in to a system that you see kind of happening to you against your will.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Happening to you instead of like happening with you or inclusive of you. Or for you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:This is like someone that cares about me and they're they're working toward my best interests with my input, you know, so we can shape that together. Beautiful. Well, Victoria, thank you. And and on behalf of, you know, the whole micro school movement, I mean, thank you for supporting this. Thanks for expanding the word and helping bridge the gap because I think there are a lot of people out there. You know, it's interesting people think of Prenda as somehow, you know, fighting the system. I like I said, my goal was to work together, and we have worked with districts in the past. It used to be that we would get teachers would come to us and say, Hey, I'm a teacher, I'm really frustrated, I'm I'm tired of the same, same kinds of things we're talking about for students. That this autonomy and engagement question shows up for educators. And so we get these teachers and they'll say, I just can't, I can't sign my contract again this year. You know, maybe that moment of hesitation, am I really happy? Do I really love it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And and they'll start a microschool privately. What's interesting nowadays is I say, Well, maybe just bring it to your your leadership, right? Go to your district, find there, they typically know who this person is. Maybe there's one kind of assistant super or there's a somebody in in the in the admin that that will get their point and they'll they may work with you. It's worth asking. If you're about to quit, you literally have nothing to lose. And so inviting people as can in a bottoms up innovate innovative approach, which is important. I think this needs to come. This movement has been grassroots from the beginning. I mean, seven kids around my kitchen table was as grassroots. as it gets. So show up, say this is what I'd like to do. Can I use some space? Can I keep these kids enrolled in the school, but do education in a very different way? And you may actually get, you may get a yes. I mean it's hard to say. And then, you know, if if the answer is no, then the answer's no and I still find to go start your own. I believe strongly in, you know, people's freedom to do that and and give parents the choice. So yeah, I I I just want to celebrate the work and and sort of comment on this this moment in time where it's no longer feeling like, you know, like this weird thing out here and then there's regular education. I think we're seeing kind of an expansion in in everybody's mindset about how this works.
SPEAKER_01:100%. And real quick, Kelly, like just on that note, like historically speaking, like microschools were like they were key to indigenous and enslaved communities. Like if I know a couple of letters, you know a couple of numbers, we know that these students can't read and it's illegal to teach them or what's being taught is contrary to what we believe, that's literally how microschools started off. One, you know, like I'm taking my education, you're taking the knowledge you have and we're providing it to those young people. And it was response, it was, they were built out of need, whether they're freedom schools or like I said, and did you know for indigenous communities. And so we see that happening again right now too where communities are like hey my young person is not getting maybe they're they're an elite athlete and they're not getting the support that they need to to expand and grow. I'm looking for educational opportunities that are going to support that. Or again maybe my young person as a caregiver like they are now taking on the role as a parent and they're 17 and so they need more flexibility in order to work and provide for their child. So this is not like there's a newness to it but also historically speaking like it's rooted in being responsive to communities and using the knowledge of that space. So like from there to where we are now to even before like you said the seven students around your kitchen table like let me just do what's right for these kids. Like it's it's always been there.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's a beautiful comment and I I agree I think that's this has been central to almost like the American spirit maybe the human spirit from from the very beginning which is you see a problem, you know, you can complain you can give up but no I mean you can also create the solution that you you're looking for. And that power is incredibly it's just exciting to see in the hands of parents teachers kids all over all over the US so microschools will continue. I I think both of us agree on that and I'm excited to look forward to the work that you continue to do. I just want to thank you for being there for these kids and families and and educators. Victoria before we wrap up I want to ask you the question that we ask everybody which is think back in your in your life and can you name someone that that has kindled the love of learning for you in your life personally I will honestly say my mom.
SPEAKER_01:So my mom jok I'm one of four my mom jokes that she ran a private school out of her home because she she was not working she was fortunate to be a stay-at-home mom for our early education but we went to the library we went to the museum we went on trips and like when we she was cooking she's like talking to us about like quarters and like halves and I need this when we went grocery shopping like which one is more economically like which one is cheaper? Which you know oh it's six of us so like what's going to last longer and she really um even when we were in school like she like if it was you could she could tell that we were overwhelmed. She's like we're gonna just stay home she didn't call it a mental health day but looking back at it now that's exactly what she was giving us. She's like you're doing well like let's just take a pause and she wasn't like overly consumed by like attendance and she was just like you're doing well let's take care I can tell you're tired or burnt out. And so my mom is that person that was the kindler yeah and she really like treated us as young people and like at a very early age allowed for a lot of autonomy. And so I also have to just thank my dad because of what he was able to do so that she could stay home to be able to do that like exactly I know I speak from a very privileged space in being able to do that. And I'm not even that old. So it wasn't like it was like the 1950s and this was happening this was like in the 90s and the 80s.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah so no it's still a sacrifice it is well thank you for shouting them out and thank you to both of your parents for giving victoria to the world I mean I can picture her you know to just go back to this analogy she's down there trying to get the right amount like blowing on the blowing on the embers but um but this idea of taking you out on a day where you know it is almost like an umbrella over that fire. It's like there's times where against you know it's not not on purpose but there's standards to be delivered there's work to be done there. So all this stuff's coming down and for her to kind of hold that keep you dry and safe from it is there is a beautiful kind of metaphor in all of that. So thank you and and thanks for sharing. Thank you again for being here and you guys can check out Victoria's work at getting smart. We definitely will yeah link to the the work you guys are doing around microschools and we hope to see more of it in the future. So thanks again for joining the Kindled Podcast Victoria Andrews.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for having me you guys have a great week I love it here. All right and see ya the Kindled Podcast is brought to you by Prenda. Prenda makes it easy to start and run an amazing microschool based on all the ideas we talk about here on the Kindled Podcast. Don't forget to follow us on social media at PrendaLearn and if you'd like more information about starting a microschool just go to prenda.com. Thanks for listening and remember to keep Kindling
